To Free the Truth

A  Q & A with Robert Pruett and Lee Taylor:

In 1995 Harris County (Houston, Texas) led the nation in adult certification.  In an attempt to reduce the expanding juvenile crime rate, over 150 juvenile offenders (ages 14-16) were certified as adults.  Any kid charged with an aggravated crime or in possession of a large quantity of dope was certified as an adult and transferred to the Harris County Jail to await proceedings in the adult judicial system.  For many of us, this meant lengthy prison sentences in the TDCJ-ID as opposed to being placed in the TYC where we would receive proper treatment and be rehabilitated and reintegrated into society one day.
The following is an interview conducted by Robert Pruett and Lee Taylor, two of the certified juveniles from Harris County in 1995.  Robert was certified on 10/31/95 at the age of 16.  He was then convicted under the law of parties for murder and sentenced to 99 years in the TDCJ-ID.  Lee was certified on 11/17/95 at age 16 and was convicted of two counts of aggravated robbery/cc and sentenced to an Aggravated Life Term in the TDCJ-ID.

Q. What exactly does it mean to be certified as an adult?

Robert: It means that you’re dealt with in accordance to the State Penal Code which offers a wider range of punishments and you’re placed in an institution (TDCJ) where rehabilitation isn’t highly valued versus one (TYC) that’s geared towards rehabilitation and child development.

Lee: Basically, Robert covered it. I’d only add that you’re locked inside a cage for a longer period of time, with no reprieve, no second chance. I believe I would have grown out of my wild, teenage ways, seeing as I have grown into a man that regrets the actions of a boy eleven years ago.

Q. Prior to your certification, did you undergo a psychological evaluation and take other tests to determine whether you should be tried as an adult?

Lee: Man, all they had me do was play with little blocks.  That’s about it!

Robert: I talked to a man, but he seemed to be more concerned with my case rather than my maturity. I recall playing with blocks too, but I don’t know how blocks can tell if a person understands right from wrong or whether he’s capable of making decisions that will effect the rest of his life.

Lee: Yeah, I wasn’t coked up or high while playing with those blocks either!

Q. What went through your mind the day you were certified as an adult?

Lee: I realized that I was about to face a system that I had no knowledge of. I was scared, clueless as to what was actually happening. I just felt helpless, like I was caught in a river and couldn’t swim to shore. I felt total despair.

Robert: Yeah, I didn’t really know what they were doing to me either. All I remember is feeling scared because the staff at the Juvenile Detention Center told me that if I was certified, I’d have to fight off grown men for my manhood in the county jail. That wasn’t easy to deal with at age 16.

Q. Harris County apparently used those certified in 1995 as examples. How do you feel about being used as a guinea pig in an experiment that didn’t work according to the recent juvenile crime statistics?

Robert: If I dwell on it, it makes me feel angry, bitter, and aggressive. I can’t believe that they’d just throw me away like that. I think I could’ve learned my lessons in TYC for a few years rather than spend the rest of my life in prison.

Lee: Honestly, I take responsibility for my actions. Even for the things that I did as a child. But, I still feel like society let me down, because I wasn’t mature enough, I wasn’t an adult. At that time in my life, I didn’t realize how much of a dumbass I was being. There was room for improvement, as evidenced by who I am today, but they didn’t give me a chance to get clean and grow up. I was out of control.

Q. When you were certified, do you think you were mature enough to make decisions that would effect the rest of your life?

Lee: No, I was only 16. Looking back I realize now that I was a child and my judgement was clouded due to the lifestyle I was living, which included drugs, alcohol, partying, and sex. That’s all I seemed to care about back then. Mature…? Of course not! I was just a kid man.

Robert: Being that we grew up in the same neighborhood, I was also sucked into that lifestyle. It was all about getting high and chasing girls back then. It didn’t dawn on me that I’d have to spend the rest of my life in prison until I was about 17 or so. So, no, I don’t think I was very mature at age 16. I suffered from a severe inability to delay gratification.

Q. What’s the difference between being in a juvenile facility versus and adult penitentiary?

Robert: There are a multitude of differences. First of all, being sent to an adult prison means you’ve been convicted of a felony and that’s on your permanent record. If you were ever to get out it would be tough to get a job and most people would shun you. As far as living conditions go, you are housed with grown men who have been locked up for decades, some of which won’t ever get out, and a lot of these guys try to prey on younger guys, especially white dudes. In juvenile, it’s all about fighting and seeing who’s toughest, whereas in prison it’s about survival and every little confrontation could be fatal.

Lee: Yeah, I hear you on that. The juvenile system is a controlled environment, whereas a TDCJ unit is run by the inmates (prison “families” or gangs). When you send a kid into an environment run by life-long criminals who are mainly concerned with perpetuating the drug business, prison rape, and prostitution, then you aren’t putting the kid into a situation conductive to rehabilitation, but rather one that breeds hate and violence. It teaches a kid how to be a criminal. This shows that the state is more concerned with punishment rather than rehabilitation for the youth of the country.

Robert: It’s all about money as far as I see it. they do things to cater the constituents of crime ridden counties without thinking them through completely. people who live in these counties are only worried about stopping the crime, and the politicians voting for them vote however they think will help them in the polls. In other words, the root of the problem, juvenile delinquents, isn’t really tended to. So as long as these kids are locked up, the citizens and politicians are happy. But in essence the kids are basically ruined. We’re tossed out like yesterday’s garbage.

Lee: I invite you (the reader) to look at the statistics and you will see that the majority of young men in prison are either doing Life or an aggravated sentence, which means that they’ll be doing most of their time. Texas is tough like that. It’s a waste of life.

Q. Did your family/friends support you (emotionally,spiritually,financially, etc.) after you were certified?

Lee: Friends, what friends? There aren’t any friends in the dope game. The only friend that stayed with me after I was certified was a female who visited me at the Juvenile Detention Center, someone I met after I got locked up. She was a counselor or something. She was from my neighborhood too, so that was cool. As far as my family, I was never too close to my family when I was free. I love them and they love me, but I couldn’t expect them to stop their lives for me. Over the years my mom has been my number one supporter; even though she’s had a rough life herself, she’s always tried to be there for me. I was raised and ruled by prison politics.

Robert: Obviously my dad and brother couldn’t be very supportive because they were being charged with the same crime and in jail. My mom hung around for a year or so, then sorta blinked out of existence for a few years. Everyone else pretty much bailed on me right after I was arrested. Most of the last 12 years I’ve had to do my time alone. After I came to death row, I was fortunate to meet a few people who showed compassion and love to me like I’d never experienced in my life. These people, a couple of which are still with me, have been more like family to me than my own. But early on it was difficult living in this place without any support from the outside.

Q. Do you think there were other options besides adult certification that would have gotten you back on track in life?

Lee: They could have sent me to TYC to be rehabilitated and to learn more about life. At the age of 18 they could have evaluated me to determine if i should be placed int eh adult system, released under stipulations, or even offered a chance in the military because people change daily, we never stay the same. Are you the same person you were five years ago? Of course not. I’m not the same person I was at 16 either. In fact, tomorrow I’ll be a little different than what I am today. Aging is a growing process, mentally and physically.

Robert: No doubt we are ever- evolving and growing from our experiences. The leap from adolescence to adulthood is a monumental one. We change so much in that period. It’s why car insurance is so high until you’re around 25yrs old, when we typically really mature. This is why I don’t think most people should have to pay for the rest of their lives for something they did as an idiot kid. You’ve got to give kids a chance to grow out of their behavior. So yeah, there were many options that the courts could have utilized to handle me rather than send me to prison forever. I’ve never really understood their logic.

Lee: Isn’t it funny that they won’t allow you to buy cigarettes, alcohol, and you have a curfew until you’re 17-21 years of age, yet they can certify you and send you to prison for the rest of your life at ages 14-16?! What’s wrong with our system?!